Chris Addison wrote a column in the Evening Standard this week about the bizarre phenomenon of men’s groups popping up on campus – I’m reminded to post about it by Reuben’s piece at the Third Estate.

Addison basically takes issue with the feminist derision of, and hostility to, the men’s society movement on the grounds that these groups aim to “explore what it means to be a man in the modern world”. Reuben takes the same statement from the Oxford Men’s Society and wonders whether it’s not a step forward for men to be questioning masculinity, and how gendered roles adversely affect them.

So far, so reasonable. But all this relies on the assumption that this is really what these groups are about, and on forgetting (or never knowing, Chris Addison) the history of attacks on women’s self-organisation in student unions.

So, an elucidation for those who’ve spent less time in the wonderful world of student politics. Men’s groups or societies have a less than proud history of being set up by reactionaries to undermine women’s groups. The public logic goes something like this: there’s a women’s group that’s women-only! That’s sexist! We should have a men’s group! Cue confused reaction from sabbatical officers who’ve forgotten why the women’s group exists in the first place. Pointless debate at student council. Repeat ad nauseum. And of course the private logic is often “feminazis! attack!”

To put a group (men’s) that’s formed to discuss a perceived identity crisis on an equal pegging in terms of political importance with a group (women’s) that exists to fight for liberation is patently ridiculous. It’d probably be quite interesting to discuss what it means to be straight with a bunch of straight students. Student Unions would not, and should not, create a ’straight’ group in the stable of liberation campaign groups (LGBT, Women, Black, Disabled Students are the standard set). If these lads want to create their own club outside the democratic structures of the union, they can go ahead (and they’ve been doing this for years at Oxbridge, they’re called drinking societies).

Lurking underneath this whingeing at SUs to create men’s groups (almost always spearheaded by right-wingers hostile to feminism) is a threat to women’s officers. Not that there are many left to threaten – when I was on the NUS exec it was around 5 in terms of full-time sabbatical officers, and part-time women’s officers were being shunted off exec teams constantly. Logic, again: the women’s group has a full time officer! The men’s group doesn’t! That’s sexist! Reaction from sabb teams: we can’t afford another full-time officer. But hmm, maybe it is sexist. Let’s have a general equality sabb, or even better, bump the women’s officer to part-time exec.

On the flipside, of course, any good women’s group ought to be organising events men can participate in; after all, we want them on our team, right? But however much Patriarchy Hurts Men Too, there simply isn’t a single campaiging issue that a men’s group could take up that wouldn’t either already be covered by Welfare and charities work (testicular cancer is often cited), or already be covered under working with the women’s group (I can’t think of a single childcare campaign that wouldn’t welcome input from single fathers, for example). There was a great pamphlet on this doing the rounds when I was at Cambridge that expanded on this in the form of FAQs, which I think is still being used by NUS, but doesn’t seem to be on the web.

Fundamentally, denying men a self-organised group within a student union structure is not discriminatory; self-organised groups exist to fight systematic oppression, and there simply isn’t systematic gender discrimination against men. On the other hand, even having the debate at union meetings puts women’s groups/officers in the position of constantly having to defend themselves against accusations of sexism or illegitimacy; really, we’ve got enough to do without all this bollocks to counteract too.

Underneath it all, I can’t help thinking the depoliticisation of students’ unions and of feminism might have a part to play in the birthing of men’s group proponents. When the arguments for women’s groups were fresh in student officers’ minds, this shit wouldn’t have got so far. But identity politics has got a firm hold on liberation campaigns in student unions; they’re forgetting that campaigns groups should be about campaigns and be active, political, democratic space, and instead many are turning into vague support groups. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve been invited to a showing of the Vagina Monologues or a photo exhibition about violence for International Women’s Day, organised by the women’s group. “Diversity” campaigns “celebrate” Black History Month whilst failing to get on the streets against the fascists, or to protest racist attacks (see this week’s Education Guardian here). In this context, it’s no wonder men’s group proponents can make themselves sound reasonable; if the self-organised campaigns are just a space for reflecting on a shared identity, why shouldn’t men have one?

Of course, they’re not, and they shouldn’t, and even when liberation campaigns are strongly political and active right-wing students will attack them. And Reuben and Mr Addison are playing a naive game countenancing men’s groups outside the context of the day-to-day reality of SU politics. And I’ve got a lot more to say on identity politics that should probably form the content of a more coherent post. But maybe, if we got our house in order in the student feminist movement a little more, we’d be better placed to fight this rubbish.

Repost from theimpossiblegirl.co.uk April 2009

This guy doesn’t get it. Brief background: At The Golden Gate Ruby Conference Matt Aimonetti gave a talk on “CouchDB + Ruby: Perform Like a Pr0n Star”. There’s more about it here and some perspectives from women here.

Now Matt’s post tries to explain why he’s, basically, not at fault. Example:

It genuinely was not my intention to cause offense. People may be driven by personal choice or cultural background to take offense at any number of things, of course, but I think there is always a clear difference between trying to offend people vs people choosing to take offense.

My view is that offending someone is walking up to them and saying: “You suck, your code sucks and your partner’s code sucks!”.

This is the classic “it’s more offensive for you to say I’m a sexist than for me to actually be sexist!” response. People with an agenda (usually those sneaky feminists) choose to find something offensive so they can have a whine and call someone mean names, like “sexist”. But what’s at stake here isn’t that the presentation was offensive per se, but that the context was inappropriate and potentially alienating to women developers, in an environment that’s already default male by dint of numbers.

There’s also the classic “you could just ignore it if you don’t like it” defence:

In the case of my talk, people knew what to expect, they *picked* the talk, and were warned by the organizers before I started that I would be using imagery potentially offensive to some. The topic of my talk was obvious, and I would have hoped that people who were likely to be offended would have simply chosen not to attend my talk or read my slides on the internet. It’s like complaining that television has too much material unsuitable for children, yet not taking steps to limit their viewing of it. You can’t have it both ways.

This presumes that people who don’t like pictures of naked women went along just so they could complain. But even if everyone who thought they might not like the talk didn’t go, it’ll still be wrong to show it; the very presence of such a slideshow at the event creates an atmosphere where women are “them”, where some content is made solely for men, but as if “male” is “default”.

I’m coming at this from the angle of someone who enjoys in-jokes and geekiness, and as a feminist with a strong anti-censorship line on pornography (you can read some of my previous writing on the subject for Solidarity here). I can see it’s not squeamishness about quirky talks or adult images that’s motivating a lot of the anger about this in the blogosphere (again, easy to paint women who object as stereotypical screeching conservatives right?). It’s the fact the talk created an atmosphere of macho-posturing.

And it doesn’t matter if it was intentional – no one really thinks Matt sat down and schemed to offend women in advance, and by refocusing on intention Matt is able to get away with all that “poor little me” stuff in his post, as if his whole character has been impugned.

Newsflash: there’s a difference between saying “you’re a sexist/racist/homophobe” and “some of the stuff you just did/said contributed to the sexist/racist/homophobic culture around X”.

Message to Ruby developers who think this is out of control/proportion/just a bit silly: all your rights to nod sympathetically/join in when someone bemoans the lack of women developers are entirely removed (for ever) if when women do speak up, you pull this self-pitying, I’m-a-nice-guy-really, its-not-my-fault, thats-just-the-way-I-roll, stop-complaining bullshit. And if those who complained then get painted as moralistic, shrill and angry for the sake of it.

There are various posts up and around about why this has become a blame game, and that it’s counter-productive. It wouldn’t be a blame game if there had been less bombastic denial and more listening on the part of the speaker in the first place. Blame games stop when someone puts their hands up and scrutinises their behaviour. So get on with it.

(For anyone who’s spent time around the feminist blogosphere, maybe 2-3 years ago, this topic reminds me of “where are all the women bloggers”…)

I used to blog every day, but that was when I was 17 (at volsunga.co.uk) and had the time and energy to be angry about the Daily Mail. This is the third blog I’ve started this year, but, having started an undergraduate degree (finally) I’ve now got the time to think, and the impetus to write. Expect socialist feminism, massive internet geekery and literature chat.