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	<title>Comments on: On journalism, subjectivity and the movement, again</title>
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	<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/</link>
	<description>a notebook</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:02:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-558</guid>
		<description>Ignore David Green. Your post is perfectly clear and if he genuinely couldn&#039;t follow it I can only assume he&#039;s been pretending to read and understand legal cases. 

Perhaps he just objects to paragraphs longer than a sentence. 

You do have a very different style to Laurie though. It&#039;s only personal preference and no criticism of her but I find your more considered approach a lot easier to digest. I struggle to get through her work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ignore David Green. Your post is perfectly clear and if he genuinely couldn&#8217;t follow it I can only assume he&#8217;s been pretending to read and understand legal cases. </p>
<p>Perhaps he just objects to paragraphs longer than a sentence. </p>
<p>You do have a very different style to Laurie though. It&#8217;s only personal preference and no criticism of her but I find your more considered approach a lot easier to digest. I struggle to get through her work.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 12:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-557</guid>
		<description>An interesting, thoughtful piece that touches on some vague reservations I&#039;ve had about her work. I say reservations rather than criticisms because she&#039;s clearly a provocative and intelligent writer but her style is not for me. I don&#039;t enjoy polemics, little of her zeal resonates with me and the sense of excitement when, for example, a protest gets out of hand I find very off putting. I agree that she&#039;s too close to her subject and dismisses objectivity wrongly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting, thoughtful piece that touches on some vague reservations I&#8217;ve had about her work. I say reservations rather than criticisms because she&#8217;s clearly a provocative and intelligent writer but her style is not for me. I don&#8217;t enjoy polemics, little of her zeal resonates with me and the sense of excitement when, for example, a protest gets out of hand I find very off putting. I agree that she&#8217;s too close to her subject and dismisses objectivity wrongly.</p>
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		<title>By: David Allen Green</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 14:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-553</guid>
		<description>Further to my comment above, I apologise for the rudeness.  I did find the post difficult to follow, but there was a more graceful way for me to say so.

Sorry, Sophie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further to my comment above, I apologise for the rudeness.  I did find the post difficult to follow, but there was a more graceful way for me to say so.</p>
<p>Sorry, Sophie.</p>
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		<title>By: David Allen Green</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 13:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-552</guid>
		<description>@Nic

Just seen your comment.  Am from working class background, not an aristo.

And I am certainly not a Keynesian, or a particular fan of Toynbee, or even an uncritical fan of Laurie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nic</p>
<p>Just seen your comment.  Am from working class background, not an aristo.</p>
<p>And I am certainly not a Keynesian, or a particular fan of Toynbee, or even an uncritical fan of Laurie</p>
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		<title>By: The Newsfox</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>The Newsfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-551</guid>
		<description>I should be writing satire but I got sucked into this as I was one of the many Private Eye readers who followed Johan Hari&#039;s descent right from the beginning. 

However, I ended up feeling sorry for Laurie Penny and agree largely with her colleague David Allen Green. 

I know nothing about Occupy beyond media  - from blogs like this to mainstream coverage. 

The stuff that I have read wreaks of outrageous levels of self importance and issues more related to a self serving cult than a political movement. 

That said, I am sure that I could find many things to agree about with those on the protests. The idea that this is something new or important is far more problematic. 

Also as a former hack, I think it is entirely reasonable to write up conversations afterwards. Notepads disrupt observance and if you are doing a brushstrokes piece then it is OK. 

Sounds to me like an honest error has been made and you are making a mountain out of it - especially as you were not named.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should be writing satire but I got sucked into this as I was one of the many Private Eye readers who followed Johan Hari&#8217;s descent right from the beginning. </p>
<p>However, I ended up feeling sorry for Laurie Penny and agree largely with her colleague David Allen Green. </p>
<p>I know nothing about Occupy beyond media  &#8211; from blogs like this to mainstream coverage. </p>
<p>The stuff that I have read wreaks of outrageous levels of self importance and issues more related to a self serving cult than a political movement. </p>
<p>That said, I am sure that I could find many things to agree about with those on the protests. The idea that this is something new or important is far more problematic. </p>
<p>Also as a former hack, I think it is entirely reasonable to write up conversations afterwards. Notepads disrupt observance and if you are doing a brushstrokes piece then it is OK. </p>
<p>Sounds to me like an honest error has been made and you are making a mountain out of it &#8211; especially as you were not named.</p>
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		<title>By: nic</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-451</guid>
		<description>Why am I not surprised David Allen Green (love the triple barreled semi-aristo name btw) calls this piece, with its clear analysis and take down of Penny&#039;s so-call journalism, &#039;turgid&#039;. That Laurie is the NS&#039;s new poster child just reinforces the absolute irrelevance of NS and its ilk. David, give it up, your re-heated brand of Keynesian liberalism isn&#039;t coming back. Part of the problem with the continuance of zombie liberalism in the NS / Polly Toynbee mode is that, unlike in the movies, you&#039;re not allowed to just kill them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why am I not surprised David Allen Green (love the triple barreled semi-aristo name btw) calls this piece, with its clear analysis and take down of Penny&#8217;s so-call journalism, &#8216;turgid&#8217;. That Laurie is the NS&#8217;s new poster child just reinforces the absolute irrelevance of NS and its ilk. David, give it up, your re-heated brand of Keynesian liberalism isn&#8217;t coming back. Part of the problem with the continuance of zombie liberalism in the NS / Polly Toynbee mode is that, unlike in the movies, you&#8217;re not allowed to just kill them off.</p>
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		<title>By: David Allen Green</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>David Allen Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-398</guid>
		<description>Gosh.

This blogpost is so turgid as to render it unreadable.

I wondered what the fuss was about regarding my NS colleague Laurie.  I have now tried to read this post twice, and I do not have a clue what much of it means.

Whatever else you contend about Laurie, she certainly writes a lot better than you.

And there&#039;s a third part? Dear god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh.</p>
<p>This blogpost is so turgid as to render it unreadable.</p>
<p>I wondered what the fuss was about regarding my NS colleague Laurie.  I have now tried to read this post twice, and I do not have a clue what much of it means.</p>
<p>Whatever else you contend about Laurie, she certainly writes a lot better than you.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s a third part? Dear god.</p>
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		<title>By: The February Theses &#124; The Great Unrest</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator>The February Theses &#124; The Great Unrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-374</guid>
		<description>[...] this is part of the Laurie Penny narrative according to which young people have no truck with old-fashioned notions that social workers and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this is part of the Laurie Penny narrative according to which young people have no truck with old-fashioned notions that social workers and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-372</guid>
		<description>Romanticism and somewhat over the top statements are the only thing that can draw people to social movements in an age of slick advertising. We&#039;re have to grab people where they&#039;re at, not just shove our own protests in our potential recruits faces, by debranding the whole thing.

On the sex side, I think it was good that the occupation I was part of managed to stay mostly asexual (we had a &quot;no heavy petting&quot; rule writ large on the walls along with no alcohol/drugs, so Penny&#039;s words ring true with myself). First, there was work to be done. Second, there was image. Third, there&#039;s the inevitable cliquery that comes from intimacy - we couldn&#039;t all be friends if half of us were sleeping with each other. Fourth - it shows that something has changed since 1969 - we&#039;re not a sexual revolution mascerading (even to some of our proponents) as some egalitarian force for good.

Going back an article I think: the organised far left is the SWP, SP etc. As an anarchist, I reject any suggestion that I&#039;m in this category, and in some senses anarchism transcends this stupid out-dated concept. People wondering &quot;what the correct left-wing response&quot; might be need to be given the elbow - these are the people who make up groups like the SWP, and they do our movement harm. Left-wing is a term imposed upon us by those who wish to band us with the authoritarians.

What the student movement has unwittingly done extremely well is to restore the possibility of change happening, at the expense of those who had privately given up hope. Or perhaps you reject the existence of hope or the need for human emotion vs the markets? 

Your points on feminism are actually the only bit of this I agree with in any way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Romanticism and somewhat over the top statements are the only thing that can draw people to social movements in an age of slick advertising. We&#8217;re have to grab people where they&#8217;re at, not just shove our own protests in our potential recruits faces, by debranding the whole thing.</p>
<p>On the sex side, I think it was good that the occupation I was part of managed to stay mostly asexual (we had a &#8220;no heavy petting&#8221; rule writ large on the walls along with no alcohol/drugs, so Penny&#8217;s words ring true with myself). First, there was work to be done. Second, there was image. Third, there&#8217;s the inevitable cliquery that comes from intimacy &#8211; we couldn&#8217;t all be friends if half of us were sleeping with each other. Fourth &#8211; it shows that something has changed since 1969 &#8211; we&#8217;re not a sexual revolution mascerading (even to some of our proponents) as some egalitarian force for good.</p>
<p>Going back an article I think: the organised far left is the SWP, SP etc. As an anarchist, I reject any suggestion that I&#8217;m in this category, and in some senses anarchism transcends this stupid out-dated concept. People wondering &#8220;what the correct left-wing response&#8221; might be need to be given the elbow &#8211; these are the people who make up groups like the SWP, and they do our movement harm. Left-wing is a term imposed upon us by those who wish to band us with the authoritarians.</p>
<p>What the student movement has unwittingly done extremely well is to restore the possibility of change happening, at the expense of those who had privately given up hope. Or perhaps you reject the existence of hope or the need for human emotion vs the markets? </p>
<p>Your points on feminism are actually the only bit of this I agree with in any way.</p>
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		<title>By: Shenanigans</title>
		<link>http://zetkin.net/journalism-subjectivity-movement-2/comment-page-1/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Shenanigans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zetkin.net/?p=249#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Hi Sofie,

It&#039;s always a pleasure to read your blog. And I agree with most of it. I think the UCL occupation has been far too focused on the press, to the detriment of other working groups and in a way that has elevated certain people on an individual, rather than a collective level. What is great about the RFS&#039;s media policy is that it prevents &quot;getting in the news&quot; from disrupting the project. There are a lot of activists out there who would like to organize and get shit done without a camera in their face.

B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sofie,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always a pleasure to read your blog. And I agree with most of it. I think the UCL occupation has been far too focused on the press, to the detriment of other working groups and in a way that has elevated certain people on an individual, rather than a collective level. What is great about the RFS&#8217;s media policy is that it prevents &#8220;getting in the news&#8221; from disrupting the project. There are a lot of activists out there who would like to organize and get shit done without a camera in their face.</p>
<p>B</p>
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